Simon Lawson has mastered the art of racing on wheels,  becoming one of the UK's top Paralympic wheelchair racers. In this episode of the Chatterjack podcast, host Lindsay Gray is joined by Nyah and Millie from St Benedict's Catholic High School to chat with Simon about his journey from a life-changing accident to smashing records and earning medals. 

Simon shares his highs and lows, from career challenges to memorable races to how he stays mentally prepared before the big events. He also opens up about the pressure of representing his country and what motivates him to keep pushing forward - even during setbacks. Oh, and he might just reveal his secret pre-race breakfast....

Pod Transcript

Lindsay Gray
Hello and welcome to the episode of the Chatterjack podcast. I'll be the host for the day. I'm Lindsay and I'm the owner-founder of Natterjack Marketing.And today I'm joined by three fabulous guests.

Simon Lawson
Good morning, I'm Simon Lawson, local wheelchair athlete.

Lindsay Gray
And who's that?

Nyah
Hi, I'm Nyah Burns and I'm from West Cumbria Catholic Sixth Form.

Lindsay Gray
Good morning, welcome.Thank you.

Millie
Hi, I'm Millie and I'm also from West Cumbria Catholic Sixth Form.

Lindsay Gray
I'm going to hand over to you guys.I'm sure you've got some super cool questions planned for Simon.

Nyah
Yeah, I've said loads. Long morning for you, Simon.So I was just wondering, can you share a bit about your early life and why you wanted to get into sports, Simon?

Simon Lawson
My early life, from the start, came from a motorbike background. My dad used to race speedway. So it was just me and my brother brought up on bikes.We live on a farm, so we just had bikes around the farm. And obviously with my dad racing speedway, we used to follow him around the country. We would have a competition bug like him and just get into racing from there, really.Ever since when I got injured, I was 19 years old when I got injured. And obviously being sporty from day one, it was just looking for another avenue to pursue after that, really. That's what kept me going.But I've always been active, ever since day one. I've always tried to find something to keep me occupied.

Nyah
I know you were talking before about New York and Chicago. So what was it like competing at an international level?

Simon Lawson
It's awesome, yeah. I think the first time I went to an international was probably 2014. It was a massive thing back then.I raced in England, doing London Marathon and different things in England. To take a flight abroad and go away to different countries and different languages and stuff like that, it's pretty daunting at first. But it's great to be in different places and see different parts of the world.Being all over the place, like Tokyo, Seoul, Rio, America, Australia, different places like that. It's amazing to see.

Millie
That sounds good, but can you talk about some of the challenges that you faced?

Simon Lawson
The biggest challenge is just the competition, really. In the sporting world, you have challenges about getting the equipment right and stuff like that. Probably the biggest challenge is your competition.I think that's the biggest thing that you look at. There's always somebody out there that's a little bit quicker or a little bit stronger in different aspects. Which obviously challenges you.You come home, train a bit harder, look for different avenues to go to rise to those challenges.

Nyah
You were just talking about your training. I just wanted to ask you, how has it evolved over the years?

Lindsay Gray
Is it the same depth or does it get harder as you go on through your career?

Simon Lawson
It depends. The older I get, it's a little bit different. At first, I just started off doing my own thing.Once my sport became more serious, more of a profession rather than just a hobby, then I had a coach and the training got set for me. Then we would tailor the training towards each different event, different marathon. Next week, I go to New York and that's a really tough course.It's probably one of the toughest marathons that we do because of the bridges. It starts in Staten Island and you go through five different boroughs in New York. In each one, there's quite big climbs over bridges and stuff like that.New York is tough in that respect. My training towards New York would be tailored a lot more on hill climbs and stuff like that. Over the years, it just develops and tailors around what event I've got coming up.

Millie
What role does mental preparation play in your competition?

Simon Lawson
A lot, really, to be honest. You've obviously got to be fit, but probably the mental side of it is massive. I think that as well, the older I get, I can use that mental side.I know with experience in New York, you know what's coming and you know what to expect. I think when I first started doing the major marathons, I put the other athletes more on a pedestal. When we'd go off the start, we'd go off real quick and I'd be thinking, I can't handle that pace for 26 miles.That would get in your head and you would back off a bit and settle into your own pace. I think once you understand things mentally and you're a bit mentally stronger, I would then think, yeah, I'm hurting, but they're hurting as well. I always used to just think, they're better and they're not hurting.You would kind of drop off, but they're hurting as well. I think mentally, when I know things like that, I can hang on to that bit and use more strategy in my racing as well. Then, obviously, the mental side comes into sight and a few athletes out and things like that.It can play a big role.

Nyah
You were just talking about Tokyo and Seoul and Rio and all that. Can you just give us one memorable race that, when you think about it, it just comes straight into your head?

Lindsay Gray
That's a really good question.

Simon Lawson
It is a good one. Now that all the races are just like, which one? I don't think one.One that kind of pops into my head as a big achievement. I've done them, like you say, all over the world. Probably one that kind of pops into my head as a big thing.One on this soil was the Great North Run in Newcastle in 2017. I won that race. I've been second there quite a few times, like previous.I think I was running up four or five times before that.

Lindsay Gray
Was it the same guy?

Simon Lawson
No, different. David Weir won it most of the times, but I think I was beat by a couple of different people, but he was the majority that would win it the most. Then in 2017, there were two top Canadians there.One that just held loads of different records on the tracks and stuff. Then the other guy, at the time, had the fastest marathon record. They were both in the race.The guy that had the fastest marathon record, he was out front for a while by himself in front of those two. I don't know why, but I knew on that day that I could beat them too. I don't know why, because I hadn't beat them before, and he had his best time.I just thought, and I chipped away. We caught the guy with half a mile to go. He'd been out front for himself for ages.I worked away with the other guy. We pulled him in. We caught him with half a mile to go.We just went straight past him, and then he came down to a sprint finish with me and the other guy. The other guy, he had records for sprint distances on the track. He was a better sprinter.Even the commentator said, it comes down to me and the other athlete, and he's known for his sprints at the finish. They were kind of writing me off, and I beat them to the finish. I don't know what happened that day, but it was a good day.

Lindsay Gray
Is that true?

Simon Lawson
Yeah. It probably comes back to that mental side, the question that you had as well. I don't know. That day, I knew I could win that day.I don't know why, because I'd never beat them. I may have more stats behind the name, but on the day, I just come out on top. That probably sticks to my memory a lot that month.

Millie
Despite all these achievements, how do you stay motivated during set backs in your career?

Simon Lawson
I had E. coli this summer. I had a good race in Boston, at the start of the Boston Marathon, and then London Marathon.I had two good races. Then I was feeling kind of good for this summer, and I got E. coli, and I was out fully.I didn't train for seven weeks. I was really kind of ill, and I was like, oh. Then I had invitations to race the Great North Run again.In September, it was really busy. I had the Great North Run. I had Sydney Marathon, which I hadn't done before, which was a kind of new thing, and it was an invite to go there.I had that to go Sydney, and then Berlin the week after. I was sitting there while these invitations were coming in, and I couldn't even get off the bus. I was thinking, I can't accept these.I had to turn them down, and I was just focused for Chicago, which was the other week. I set my own little kind of training plan to just sort of forget about them ones in September and kind of train through it. The motivation there was just to kind of get back to where I was.Then I came in. I got over all that, and I trained hard, and I set my kind of plan out to kind of steadily go through September and build it up and things. Then the week leading up to Chicago I flew to Chicago on a Wednesday, and on the Saturday before, I knocked myself out.I got through all of them in E. coli and got my training all back. I work as a mechanic as well.I had an engine that was quite heavy, and I picked this engine up to put it on the frame. As I put it on the frame, the kind of weight of it there, and the floor was a little bit slippy because I'd been washing other things, the weight of the engine leeching it to there. My chair shot back, and I couldn't save myself because I had this heavy engine in my hand, and I just responded against this thing.I knocked myself out, and then I was thinking, I've just come through getting through all this, and it was like days before the thing. I knocked myself out, and then I felt, and I thought, I'm all right, I'm all right. I busted open my eye and everything.I cleaned that up, and I thought, I'm still all right, I'm all right. The next day, it must have been a concussion or something from a thing. I felt like I had flu.I was thinking, I have to pull out of Bloomington-Chicago now, and that was days before. I went to the doctor. After two days, I just felt really rough.I went to the doctors, and I thought, if I just go to the doctors and get it on the system, if I need to pull out, because they obviously invite me and pay for my flights and things like that. I thought, if I go and just put it in the system, and if I need to pull out, I can get a doctor's note. It came to Wednesday morning, and I still felt rough.I thought, I'm just going to go. Worst comes to worst, I'll have to just pull out on the day or whatever. But then as the week went on, I had such a bad day on my flight, and then on Thursday, I wasn't too bad.On Friday, I was thinking, I'm all right. Then Saturday, I felt better. I woke up Sunday morning, race day, and I felt fine.I had a good race. That was lucky. But going back to the motivation thing, I didn't know where I would be at in Chicago.I trained hard, but obviously in the major things, if you slip out of the top 10 or 12 kind of thing, you don't get the invitations back and stuff like that. It was playing on my mind whether to pull out, because no result would probably have been better than a really poor result and slipped down the rankings. The motivation was to kind of keep there.Then I went and I slotted right back in kind of where I was at, to be honest. I ran in 6th, 6th and 7th, like most of the race, until the last 200 metres of the race. The back of my chair broke during the race.It wasn't really affecting me until I'd come to a hill, but typically there was a hill just before the finish. So I slipped back a little bit. But that's motivated me a lot for New York, because I got back to where I kind of was, and I thought if I've missed that seven weeks and I've trained as good as I have and I've slipped back into kind of where I was, then that's kind of motivated me more for New York, because I think I've had a few more weeks and I've had more training.I think I can go better than kind of where I was at, really. So it's kind of motivated me a bit. It's motivated me a lot for next year as well.I think I can kind of improve on where I've been, really. A long, windy answer to a question, but it's my motivation, yeah.NyahIf you could give advice to young athletes who are just starting their career now, what would you say to them?

Simon Lawson
People get disheartened, I think, early on, if you're looking at the best. Everybody wants to be the best. Everybody wants to win, but people kind of develop in different times as well, and I think sometimes, I did it a little bit, you always look at the top guys and you can get a bit disheartened if you're not there or you're getting beat or you're not performing as well as them.But you've just got to... Everybody's individual and you all progress at different times and what's their best and what's your best is all different. So I don't think get too worried or carried away about what other people do as well.Like I say, people progress at different times as well and if you see somebody else getting a little bit quicker at this point, just stick to your own thing and develop and as long as you can kind of make improvements of your own kind of goals each time, just work on yourself, really, and not get carried away and everybody else's hype or progress and stuff like that.

Lindsay Gray
That's really good advice. Just in general I love that.

Simon Lawson
Yeah, well, everybody progresses at different things, isn't it? Everything in life, yeah.

Lindsay Gray
In your job in school.

Simon Lawson
Yeah, exactly, yeah.

Lindsay Gray
Yeah, that's so true. Good question.

Millie
I know you've spoke about the Great North Run, but what's your most proudest achievement so far?

Simon Lawson
That ranks up there a lot. And then I've got... Lindsay just asked me to bring medals in before, but I didn't listen to the message early enough, so I never brought anything in.I'm not going to, as the mission was good, so I'm not going to get anything. I was bronze medal in the Commonwealth Games twice, so the first time was on the Gold Coast in Australia in 2018 and that was the first time I got selected to represent Team England in the Commonwealth Games and we went over there and I finished third. It was a sprint finish as well.The guy, there was an Australian that won gold and he kind of just broke away a little bit. Was that a home crowd? Home crowd as well, because the Aussies, they're a bit like...I don't know how to say it. They're a bit boisterous. They can be a bit thin.And we were like... The guy, there was actually an incident early on where a camera bike, there was a real sharp corner and the camera bikes that were filming and stuff kind of got in the road of one guy and one guy kind of fell and we got a little bit held behind that. Not massively, but we kind of got interrupted and the guy that was leading the Aussie, he kind of made a break and we never really got back to that.So then, Aussie crowd, they were like, Kurt's got you, you're never going to beat Kurt. And like, all the home crowd were like, cheers. So they were getting it.But he got away and then there was second, third and fourth. We were all together for like the whole race and it was coming down to the last sort of sprint and the sprint finish isn't really my forte in terms of pace, which I can be better at just kind of like getting the pace and like holding it or hanging on to a high pace. But the sharp kind of sprint, like fast twitch fibres or whatever, that's not really my forte.And I was coming down, I was thinking, there's three of us, there's two medals left and we were all there and I was thinking... And I was kind of testing him a little bit. Everybody would make like a surge and I was thinking, is he quicker than me?Am I quicker than him? And it came down to like the last mile to go and there was another English guy in it and a Canadian than me. And he made a surge kind of before I thought, it's a long way to kind of sprint finish from here.I didn't expect it. And he made a surge and I think the other guy didn't expect it either. And I managed to just cover that and we got away but we all finished like neck and neck and that was like a tight finish.I was proud of that to get a bronze medal there. And then the Commonwealth Games were in Birmingham in 2022 and I got a bronze medal again there. So yeah, they're probably my biggest sort of medal achievements so far.

Nyah
Thank you. I just wanted to ask you, how did you feel like as you've been through your career, the perception of para-athletics has like changed because you're probably like one of the biggest like things it's had an impact on where you've got to witness it change all the time.

Simon Lawson
Massive.

Lindsay Gray
That's a really good question. Those are really good questions.

Nyah
Half of them aren't mine.

Simon Lawson
I think every year it kind of raises up, but I think from like London 2012, I think was a big step for like disability sports in this country. And obviously with David Weir, I think he got four gold medals in that Games and he was our home guy and it developed a lot for disability sports and stuff like that in this country. And then each year it's getting a bit bigger and like you get events like London Marathon.Each year they seem to be increasing the prize money for like for the wheelchair category as well. So it's as if it's gaining more respect as well.

Lindsay Gray
Because you train as hard.

Simon Lawson
Yeah, you train just as hard. Our equipment's more expensive than like the able-bodied person buys a pair of trainers. We've got like race chairs.Race chairs now are getting ridiculous. In this last year, two years, the chairs have started to make more of a difference than the actual athlete. Like the Swiss guy from Switzerland, he developed this chair with a Formula One team and it was like all carbon fibre and this fancy thing.And there's a rule in like racing where everything's got to be commercially available. So everybody's got the same chance of getting the same thing. Well, this chair isn't really commercially available and they put like a price tag on it.It was like something like £50,000 for this chair. And they said, well, it's there, you can buy it. Nobody's paying that money for this, so it wasn't.But he's like, since he got that, well, he got that and he's just won everything ever since he got that, he's just won everything. Like he's broke course records. He knocked like five minutes off London Marathon's course record and like course records get broke by 10 seconds or 30 seconds and he's nothing.So that's just gone ridiculous. But that's all, as the sport's grown and things like that, that opportunity wouldn't have come years ago. Like a Formula One team wouldn't have been interested in like our sport years ago.So things are progressing. The outside sponsorship, like one of the Japanese guys, he's sponsored by like Nike and the American team is sponsored by Bridgestone and there's different, you know, it's coming a lot more to like Limelight and stuff like that.

Lindsay Gray
Racing background and having a Formula One.

Simon Lawson
I know, right. It's massive, yeah, it's good. So I just need one to help me now.

Lindsay Gray
We'll do our best.

Millie
So just building on that, when you were talking about London 2012, is there any specific events you're looking forward to in the future?

Simon Lawson
I do all the marathon majors. Sometimes I don't do Tokyo, but like the marathon majors are like Tokyo, Marathon, Boston, London, Berlin, Chicago, New York. So I do them as like a circuit each year.And then obviously when it comes to like Olympic year or Commonwealth year, I focus on things like that. So the next Commonwealth Games, just being in Glasgow, I took that on because Australia were going to do it and then it fell through like financial reasons or something.

Millie
So you're saying about how you got into para-athletics at about 19, quite a human age.

Lindsay Gray
What would you say to people who don't really know much about para-athletics?

Simon Lawson
Now obviously with the internet and stuff like that, you can search stuff and see things, just kind of see what you would like. Local sports clubs, I know Carlisle would do like basketball and things like that, wheelchair basketball and things like that. So there is groups and that all over.But kind of just it's like anything when you're not into something and you don't kind of know about it. And then as soon as you kind of get into it, things just kind of pop up everywhere. So yeah, just kind of see what you enjoy as well.Not everybody wants to do a marathon like I do. There's different things.

Lindsay Gray
Absolutely.

Simon Lawson
I hated running. Before I got into like to do marathons in my race chair, I just didn't hate running. Like the most I would do was cross-country at school and that's about 5K.And I wouldn't run unless I was lit for something like that. I would bike everywhere. I used to push bike but I didn't like running.So it's a bit ironic that I do marathons now.

Millie
If you had to speak to your younger self, what would you have said?

Simon Lawson
Just, sounds cheesy, but just like follow your dreams. Just do what you want to do. You get caught up in life a bit sometimes, don't you?You like to keep people happy and kept it. But it's your life and you're only here kind of once. So do what you want to do.Make yourself happy. You've got to be nice to people and keep people happy but at the end of the day, it's your life. And if you're not happy, what's the point?Just do what you want to do. Live your life how you want to live it. It's important that journey goes on.

Lindsay Gray
And you find your tribe as such

Simon Lawson
You do. And if you're doing the things that you like, you end up kind of surrounded with like-minded people and doing the sort of things that you all want to do. Don't take opportunities.Take a few risks or whatever, but just make sure you're happy. That's the main thing.

Millie
Talking about big competitions, how do you handle the pressure of representing your country?

Simon Lawson
Just try not to think about it. You can kind of get caught up in pressure a lot. And at the end of the day, whether you've got...You always want to do the best you can do. Sometimes you can use it to help you as well. Don't get too caught up in the pressure of it.But it's nice when you pull. Normally when you do your marathons, you've got your own kit that you bought or whatever. But when you go to a competition like that and they're supplying all the kit and it's got either Team GB or Team England on and you put that on, it's a proud moment to put your national colours on and stuff like that.So I just kind of use it as a bit of a push rather than cutting the pressure. At the end of the day, I want to perform no matter what. Whether it's a small, local 10k or whatever, I want to still do as good as I can.I don't go into a race thinking I can just think. I just try and use the pressure as motivation.

Nyah
So we're on to one of my questions now.

Simon Lawson
Is it a good one?

Nyah
Oh yeah, it is a good one.I just wanted to ask you, when you're coming up to training, what would your favourite meal be while you're in the depth of hardcore?

Simon Lawson
It's probably not the most athletic, to-the-book nutritionist thing, but I like a full English. It's funny because when you're at Commonwealth Games or the Olympics and stuff like that, you're in an athlete village and you're in the thing and there's a food court. It's a massive big food hall.Around the sides, they'll have all the national dishes of each country that's kind of there, so the athletes keep on the same thing. When we were at the last one that we did, at Birmingham for the Commonwealth Games, we were going and I was sharing my apartment room with David Weir and we'd go to breakfast together and he'd have porridge and I'd have a full English. How can you eat that? That's not what I eat. Can't eat a bit of full English. And obviously I do enough training to burn it off. So I can just use it.

Lindsay Gray
On the morning of the Great North Run did you have any full English?

Simon Lawson
I'll try to think. I probably did. When I'm on a stay at a hotel.I never make it at home because it's just a bath on it. It takes you about half an hour to get everything right. It takes you like five minutes to eat and then ten minutes to wash everything up.But any time I go to a hotel, first thing, it's always a full English. Every time I go to a hotel, I have a bath in the thing. Because at home, I have a shower.In my house at home, I've just got a shower. So I just have a shower every day. But when I go to a hotel, it's like cook breakfast, cook things, have a bath, make use of all the facilities.It's good for some health. But I do eat healthy, obviously. You know, try and eat right and prepare for like marathons and stuff like that.Drink your water and eat healthy like nine times out of ten. But I do like a full English.

Nyah
How did you have that full English?

Simon Lawson
There's plenty of energy in it. Because at the end of the day, you just need calories in a marathon. You're out there, like 26 miles, you're out there.I mean, we're not out there as long as runners, but on average, we're about an hour and a half. So you're just burning a lot of calories, really. Good calories coming, but I've let them do it.

Lindsay Gray
That's been so good. We do have a closing tradition on the podcast, so I'm just going to go and get the spinning wheel.

Simon Lawson
Do I spin which way?

Lindsay Gray
Whichever way you want.

Simon Lawson
I'll go clockwise. No, that wasn't very big. It was stiffer than I thought.

Lindsay Gray
What are we on? We are on number five. Ooh.So number five is if you could switch jobs with anyone for a day, who would you bring and why?

Simon Lawson
Jobs. Jobs.

Lindsay
What are we on? We are on number five. Ooh, so number five is, if you could switch jobs with anyone for a day, who would it be and why?

Simon
Jobs. Jobs or careers, or if you could switch with that person for a day, who would it be? Uh, I don't know. I take a lot of flights and stuff, so it would be probably a pilot. I'd like to fly a big plane.

Lindsay
What if you didn't like flying?

Simon
At night, I don't like taking a night flight. I like my sleep.

Lindsay
As opposed to being a pilot though, you could probably go for the SMAs in the back.

Simon
I'll choose what time I'll fly as well, but I'd like to fly a plane.

Lindsay
Okay. We'll see if we can make that happen.

Simon
But it has to be a big plane. I don't like them little propeller jobs though. Ah, yeah, shit.

Lindsay
No, A330 time. We'll see what we can do. That's been really cool. Thank you so much for joining us. No problem. And thanks as well, guys, for being great.Cheers.

Nyah
That's it, yeah.

Lindsay
Thank you. I hope you enjoyed that episode of the Chatterjack podcast. And we'll see you for our next episode very soon.